Lord Rama's worship of Lord Shiva
Giriraja: At one of the programs, somebody raised the question that we cited that Lord Siva is worshiping Krsna, that he is a Vaisnava. So that person replied that Lord Rama also worshiped Siva. So he wanted to know the explanation.
Lokanatha: You explained yesterday.
Prabhupada: Sometimes Krsna is chastised by mother Yasoda. So how is that? The Supreme Personality of Godhead is being chastised by mother Yasoda?
Giriraja: He likes to be chastised. It's part of the relationship.
Prabhupada: Similarly, He likes to worship His devotee. Sometimes the father takes the child on his shoulder. Does it mean the child is more important than the father? They say the Valmiki Ramayana, there is no such incidence as Ramacandra worships Siva. It is later on, interpretation. But even if He does so, what is the wrong here?
Harikesa: That later-on Ramayana has caused some havoc.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Harikesa: That later-on interpretation?
Prabhupada: Yes, the Saivaites, they want to make Lord Siva the exalted Supreme Person. In South India there is good propaganda. That is always going on.
Lokanatha: When Lord Siva says in Puranas that mukti-pradapah sarvesam visnu... (sic)
Prabhupada: Hm?
Lokanatha: Purana, the same Lord Siva says there is no other liberated besides Visnu.
Devotee: ...engagement, one devotee commented that the reason that Lord Rama worshiped Lord Siva was because He wanted to kill Ravana and Ravana was a
devotee of Siva, so Lord Rama worshiped Siva in that respect.
Prabhupada: Hm? What is that?
Harikesa: He said that because Lord Siva was, ah, excuse me, Ravana was a devotee of Lord Siva, that in order that Lord Ramacandra could kill Ravana, He worshiped Siva.
Kirtanananda: He wanted to take permission of him, so they say. Rama wanted to take permission from Siva...
Prabhupada: So Siva is so rascal that he gave permission? That means they are trying to prove Siva is a rascal. (devotees laugh) Because he gave permission to kill his devotee. Then what is the use of his, of one becoming Siva's devotee? If such a rascal that one can take his permission to kill his devotee, so what is the use of becoming a devotee of such a rascal? Huh?
Harikesa: He protected Banasura.
Prabhupada: Huh? What is that? That means that proving that Siva is a rascal. He gave permission to kill his devotee. Then what is the use? Then nobody should become Siva's devotee. That is the conclusion. Because he gives permission to somebody else to kill his devotee. They are trying to prove Lord Siva is a rascal. What do you think? Huh? If I want your permission, please give me your permission, I shall kill your son, and if you say, "Yes, I give my permission," then are you not a rascal? By this example they are making Lord Siva a rascal, that he has no common sense even.
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: No, if this proposition is there, that Lord Siva gives permission for killing his devotee, then who will become his devotee? Huh? Is it not?
Indian man: Yes.
Prabhupada: No sane man will become his devotee. All the manufactured foolish statements, just see. Any commonsense man will immediately say, "Then Siva is a rascal; he cannot give protection to his devotee." What do you think? Huh?
Kirtanananda: Of course, Srila Prabhupada, does one have to give protection to their devotee if they break the law? Just like if you have a child, and he murders someone, isn't he supposed to be punished? So if someone goes against the Supreme Personality of Godhead, even if you are a devotee, shouldn't Siva concur?
Prabhupada: No, no. That is another thing. This proposal, that because Lord Ramacandra approached Lord Siva to kill Ravana, and he gave permission, although Ravana was his great devotee. Then what is the use of becoming devotee of Lord Siva? He gives permission. Huh? Is that very reasonable proposal? If I ask your permission that I shall kill your son, will you give permission? No. Then? So Lord Siva gives permission to Lord Ramacandra, "Yes, You can kill Ravana," then what is the use of becoming his devotee?
Harikesa: I think Dr. Patel would say that it's not fair, you have fired the opposition.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Harikesa: It's not fair. You have completely destroyed the opposition. (Prabhupada laughs) There is no question of fight.
Prabhupada: The actual fact is that Lord Siva did not give permission, but he did not go to protect Ravana, because he knew that it was impossible to give him protection. That is summarized in Bengali, rakhe krsna mare ke, mare krsna rakhe ke. If Krsna kills somebody, wants to kill somebody, nobody can give him protection. That is the conclusion.
Prabhupada: Sometimes Krsna is chastised by mother Yasoda. So how is that? The Supreme Personality of Godhead is being chastised by mother Yasoda?
Giriraja: He likes to be chastised. It's part of the relationship.
Prabhupada: Similarly, He likes to worship His devotee. Sometimes the father takes the child on his shoulder. Does it mean the child is more important than the father? They say the Valmiki Ramayana, there is no such incidence as Ramacandra worships Siva. It is later on, interpretation. But even if He does so, what is the wrong here?
Harikesa: That later-on Ramayana has caused some havoc.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Harikesa: That later-on interpretation?
Prabhupada: Yes, the Saivaites, they want to make Lord Siva the exalted Supreme Person. In South India there is good propaganda. That is always going on.
Lokanatha: When Lord Siva says in Puranas that mukti-pradapah sarvesam visnu... (sic)
Prabhupada: Hm?
Lokanatha: Purana, the same Lord Siva says there is no other liberated besides Visnu.
Devotee: ...engagement, one devotee commented that the reason that Lord Rama worshiped Lord Siva was because He wanted to kill Ravana and Ravana was a
devotee of Siva, so Lord Rama worshiped Siva in that respect.
Prabhupada: Hm? What is that?
Harikesa: He said that because Lord Siva was, ah, excuse me, Ravana was a devotee of Lord Siva, that in order that Lord Ramacandra could kill Ravana, He worshiped Siva.
Kirtanananda: He wanted to take permission of him, so they say. Rama wanted to take permission from Siva...
Prabhupada: So Siva is so rascal that he gave permission? That means they are trying to prove Siva is a rascal. (devotees laugh) Because he gave permission to kill his devotee. Then what is the use of his, of one becoming Siva's devotee? If such a rascal that one can take his permission to kill his devotee, so what is the use of becoming a devotee of such a rascal? Huh?
Harikesa: He protected Banasura.
Prabhupada: Huh? What is that? That means that proving that Siva is a rascal. He gave permission to kill his devotee. Then what is the use? Then nobody should become Siva's devotee. That is the conclusion. Because he gives permission to somebody else to kill his devotee. They are trying to prove Lord Siva is a rascal. What do you think? Huh? If I want your permission, please give me your permission, I shall kill your son, and if you say, "Yes, I give my permission," then are you not a rascal? By this example they are making Lord Siva a rascal, that he has no common sense even.
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: No, if this proposition is there, that Lord Siva gives permission for killing his devotee, then who will become his devotee? Huh? Is it not?
Indian man: Yes.
Prabhupada: No sane man will become his devotee. All the manufactured foolish statements, just see. Any commonsense man will immediately say, "Then Siva is a rascal; he cannot give protection to his devotee." What do you think? Huh?
Kirtanananda: Of course, Srila Prabhupada, does one have to give protection to their devotee if they break the law? Just like if you have a child, and he murders someone, isn't he supposed to be punished? So if someone goes against the Supreme Personality of Godhead, even if you are a devotee, shouldn't Siva concur?
Prabhupada: No, no. That is another thing. This proposal, that because Lord Ramacandra approached Lord Siva to kill Ravana, and he gave permission, although Ravana was his great devotee. Then what is the use of becoming devotee of Lord Siva? He gives permission. Huh? Is that very reasonable proposal? If I ask your permission that I shall kill your son, will you give permission? No. Then? So Lord Siva gives permission to Lord Ramacandra, "Yes, You can kill Ravana," then what is the use of becoming his devotee?
Harikesa: I think Dr. Patel would say that it's not fair, you have fired the opposition.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Harikesa: It's not fair. You have completely destroyed the opposition. (Prabhupada laughs) There is no question of fight.
Prabhupada: The actual fact is that Lord Siva did not give permission, but he did not go to protect Ravana, because he knew that it was impossible to give him protection. That is summarized in Bengali, rakhe krsna mare ke, mare krsna rakhe ke. If Krsna kills somebody, wants to kill somebody, nobody can give him protection. That is the conclusion.
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